Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) called the latest claim by an attorney for Donald Trump “just comical” after the former president was indicted on Tuesday on four counts related to his attempts to reverse his 2020 election defeat.
John Lauro, an attorney for Trump, called the indictment “an attack on free speech and political advocacy” during a CNN interview.
But Raskin said on MSNBC that Trump’s speech has nothing to do with it.
It’s his actions that led to the indictment.
“You have a right to say, for example, ‘Oh, I think that the meeting of the House and the Senate in joint session to count Electoral College votes is a fraud or is taking away Donald Trump’s presidency.’ You can say whatever you want,” Raskin said. “But the minute you actually try to obstruct the meeting of Congress, you crossed over from speech to conduct.”
He offered another example:
“It’s like, y’know, you can say: ‘Well, I think the currency is phony and everybody should be allowed to make up their own money.’ You can say that. But the minute you start printing your own money, now you’ve run afoul of the counterfeit laws. And it’s the exact same thing with the Electoral College.”
In this case, Raskin said, Trump didn’t simply express ideas about the election with his debunked claims of fraud. He also assembled “counterfeit electors” and plotted to substitute them for the real Electoral College representatives.
“At that point, they’ve crossed over from speech to conduct,” he said.
Raskin, who led Trump’s Senate impeachment trial on charges related to the insurrection, said the Jan. 6 committee last year accused Trump of aiding and abetting and giving aid and comfort to insurrectionists ― but special counsel Jack Smith didn’t charge the former president on that count.
He said he believes that allows prosecutors to avoid arguing about free speech and focus entirely on conduct.
Raskin called the evidence against the former president “overwhelming.”
See more of his discussion on MSNBC below: